Starting Your Own Eco Surf Brand With Dom Taylor of Shaka Surf

Saltwater High! Today, I have with me Dominick, and Dominick has an awesome new surf brand or I'm not sure how new it is—Shaka Surf, and he's talking to us from the UK. Dominick, how are you, brother?

I'm very well, Derek. I'm very well. How about you?

I'm good, man. Yeah, we were talking offline. Tell me a little bit more about your dual life here—Portugal and the UK. I've actually surfed both places, so I'm interested to know a little bit about that whole history.

Yes, sure. So I bounced around a fair bit. I've lived in Australia, Taiwan, and most recently Portugal. So I started Shaka Surf in early 2018. So it's a very, very new brand. And basically, I used to work in the surf industry out in Australia. I used to work with Quicksilver, in the e-Commerce department. And then I sort of got a glimpse into how the supply chain works with fast-fashion retail. And then really just didn't like what I sort of learned about the whole industry, about the cotton farms and the unsustainable practices, et cetera. So I kind of left that to start my own thing, really.

Yeah.

And I left Australia. I left the comfort of having a nice, steady income there and to go on my own really and to work freelance and to try launching my own brand. And then the idea behind Shaka Surf was to really create pretty similar to Wave Tribe, really—to create an online surf marketplace to only sell products we truly believe in and know how they've been manufactured, know about the supply chain, trying to keep that minimal and to really vouch for the products. If it's not something that we would feel comfortable using ourselves then we simply don't list it on the site.

Yeah.

So yeah, I've been basically running everything myself for the last two years—the marketing, the design, the branding, the partnerships. Most of our suppliers are in Portugal or the UK, but most being in Portugal. And yeah, I've really enjoyed the experience of being out there. It's great weather, great surf, great people.

Yeah. Are you in Lisbon when you're there or are you kind of popping around?

Yeah, I'm mostly in Lisbon, so [inaudible 00:02:58] is in a place called Costa da Caparica, which is just south of Lisbon. So you cross over that famous red bridge and it's only about 10km south of Lisbon and there is consistent surf all year. It's amazing. You've got a nice stretch of beach and surf's separated by these little jetties. So if one bank's not working very well, then you can just pop down to the next one, and then it is super easy. You don't need a car there, you just get a bike. Yeah, get a bike, get your board, and you're good to go.

Nice! I've been to Portugal a couple of times and I remember taking a trip. I drove from the south all the way up. And I remember checking those beaches on that side of the bridge. And I didn't really know what I was doing because there's a bunch of inlets, right? So you got to drive around that end. But I was thinking to myself when I was there, "Man, I bet this goes off here."

The winter, yeah. The winters are epic, but most of the time, you just get these huge Atlantic swells. And a lot of the time, unless you want to be battling the currents a good hour just to get out, a lot of time you just leave it and then go further down the coast or the south to find somewhere a bit less exposed. But you know what? Portugal is amazing. I can't big it up enough, really. You've got 300 kilometers of coastline there.

Yeah.

The options are endless.

And have you seen the crowds kind of increase in the last couple of years?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. I would call the Portuguese as fanatical surfers. It's a relatively young surf industry. It's really taking off in the last 10 years maybe there. And then surfing in Portugal I think started in the 70s. So pretty late.

Wow!

And yeah, there's amazing, really talented surfers and they get into high-performance coaching. Lineups, especially on weekends, especially around the Lisbon beach breaks. Places like Carcavelos, Costa, it's just super crowded. It's crazy. It's like SoCal. Yeah, just bodies everywhere.

Yeah, this COVID, so basically we've seen this huge spike in people surfing because nobody can or a lot of places, they can't go to the gym. They can't travel. So we've seen a huge beginner spike since COVID started here.

Yes.

I don't know if it's been like that in Europe, too, but it's just crazy.

Yeah, definitely. I definitely have noticed that. And I was up in Peniche the other month. And what I was most surprised he was telling me he's never seen so many women surf schools.

Yeah.

He says in Portugal it's always pretty much weighted towards guys. It's that 80, 20 ratio. But up in Peniche, he was saying it's more like 60 percent girls these days and 40 percent guys. It's quite a phenomenon.

That's awesome. I love when girls are in the water.

It's the testosterone levels for sure, right.

Dude, it just changes everything. Yeah, more women, please. Yeah, dude. So you were in Australia working for Quiksilver and I guess you really wanted to, well, do your own thing which is awesome. But as you're probably learning, it's a hard industry, bro. It's hard to be kind of the small guy or the independent. Like they have these independent bookstores all against like Barnes and Noble and these big conglomerates. That's kind of how I feel. I feel like the independent surf company against the biggies. But, yeah, I'm stoked, dude. I kind of looked at your site and saw you're taken, I mean, it's a lot of the same ethos that Wave Tribe has, which is great. I think Europe is in some ways, Europe is more positioned to embrace that sort of lifestyle versus like middle America or Florida, other places that aren't so eco kind of forward-thinking.

Yeah.

In fact, I read the other day, I don't know, you got to confirm this for me. I read somewhere that they're predicting by the year 2030, half of the people in the UK will be vegan. Did you read that statistic?

I don't read that statistic but you know what, it doesn't surprise me at all. It doesn't surprise me at all.

Dude, that's crazy.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. But in my mother's, it's never been [inaudible 00:08:38] to go vegetarian or vegan, really. The range of options on the market are just huge. In fact, you got companies like Beyond Burger and a lot of objection to going vegetarian or vegan is that oh, if I go vegetarian and vegan, there's nothing really which equates to the sort of taste and texture of meat. But now that they created stuff like Beyond Burger and stuff, that argument goes out the room there really.

Yeah, yeah. No, I thought that was an amazing statistic. It'd be awesome.

Yeah, yeah. I used to live in Brighton and Brighton's really well-known for vegetarian and vegan cafes. It's what I used to do on the weekend, just go to a vegan cafe. And food was amazing. I'm sure it's like that where you live as well.

Yeah, some places. It's a small segment of society for sure, but it's definitely growing. California tends to be more progressive and I live in a small town called Ojai. And we have one vegan restaurant, totally vegan. And then almost every other place has vegetarian options. So, yeah, it's definitely something that I'm happy to see the world wake up to because I don't mind if people eat meat. Everyone has their own journey. In fact, I've read somewhere that it's actually one of the most powerful things you can do. It'll have one of the largest impacts over your lifetime if you stop to eat meat. It's probably the most green thing that you could do in your life. So not to mention, you're not killing animals and being part of that whole thing. So, yeah, man. So tell me a little bit more about Surf Shaka and how do you get the name? I love the name. Or Shaka Surf.

You can't really copyright that name, eh. It just got universal appeal, really. How did I get the name? I was actually in Belgium visiting a good bud who I met for surfing in Taiwan. So that's where I really got caught on surfing because he had amazing surf. So in late summertime, you get always typhoon swells hit that region in Japan as well. And yes, a surfing buddy from Taiwan really and we were just catching up. And then he was telling me about his friend surf camping rocker called Shaka Surf and I was like, "That's a cool name. I think I'll make that." And so that's what I did. Yeah.

Cool.

So that's how it came about really. In terms of logo design, you'll see on the logo there's sort of like a thin outline and that's how we started off. So just started off selling recycled plastic fins. So I work with Marlin Fins, which are very well-known in Europe. And he basically is a plastics expert. There's not a thing that this guy doesn't know about plastics. It's amazing. He's like a walking encyclopedia about plastics. So, yeah, he's always up in Peniche and he makes them. And then we sort of like custom design them. And I'm very excited, actually, because we're just about to launch our line of fins that he sort of made with us, so I'm about to get my hands on the first samples in the next few weeks.

Sweet!

So then, yeah, so that's really how it came about. And then I start expanding the product range a little bit more, and then I'm really into e-Commerce, though. My sort of background's e-Commerce when I was working at Quiksilver, so I basically designed and develop the site and then playing around with new technologies. I'm sure you're the same. It's awesome. Obviously, there's few established sort of e-Commerce providers out there like Shopify and WooCommerce and stuff like that. But I decided to sort of move away from that kind of area and then just develop my own sort of stack and then e-Commerce API. So I've learned a lot about coding in the last two years for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Tell me a little something about this Eco Egg that you have. That thing looks pretty sick.

Yeah, the Eco Egg. So that's worked in partnership with an amazing brand based in France, which you may have heard of, called Yuyo Surf. And they 3D print their boards, actually and again, using recycled plastics. I think he sources them from medical waste, he told me. And so he's got massive 3D printers and then to actually print the board, it takes a good two, three weeks maybe, depending on how many jobs they've got. They can take up to a month. And then for the lamination stage, he uses bio-resins and yeah, mainly bio-resins and something else. I can't remember the name of that. And so the board itself is probably most suited towards beginners. And then to me, it's just slightly heavier than your standard mid-length board. I guess it's a 6'6", about 20" wide.

And is it solid plastic or is it a hollow? Huh?

Rounded pin, and then single tip.

But no, inside, I'm looking at it right now on the website. Is it solid inside or is it a hollow? I'm just trying to figure out how they 3D print it.

Yeah. So it's actually a hollow shell from what I understand. And then, yeah, so he prints it out in sort of sections. But if you're keen on learning more, his website is yuyo.surf. And then there's more information about the manufacturing process. 3D printing is something a bit new to me. I've had a bit of exposure to board manufacture, I've learned to shape my own boards. So don't know about you. It's a lot of fun, but you just appreciate how much hard work it is and just any little mistake you're just constantly like the whole shaping process is just trying to recover from your mistakes.

That's for sure. I don't know how many boards I have with crooked rails and divots where I had the planer in my hand and I wasn't looking. It was like eeenkkk. I was like, "Oh, no, not again!" There's no going back on a blank either.

Yeah. And it becomes very expensive. I'm putting my money into it. And it's just like I can't come to charge my mate for that boards. I'm just like, "Here you go, yeah. I thought this one out for free."

Nice, bro. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about kind of what's your vision? You're going to bring in your own branded fins? Which I think is a great idea. I see very little kind of eco fins on the market. So I think that's awesome.

That's true.

Yeah. What other kind of things are you thinking about?

Well, I'm not going to touch board socks, so don't worry about that. I'm not going to step on your toes.

It's all good, bro.

Yeah. Or leg ropes as well. I saw that you've recently launched your own leg rope, which looks awesome because I've researched it tonight and it is hard to find manufacturers of sustainable leg ropes.

Yeah, super hard.

And good enough you said that. I've had people ask me, "Are you going to start selling eco leg ropes?" And I'm like, "Nah." I don't really know where to begin on that front. And so, yeah, at the moment, I'm just going to sort of still focus on the fins, maybe introduce a few more accessories, maybe some wax. But obviously, the profit margin on wax is just really minimal so it's hard. But I'll see about the bundles. Our consumer, you probably find this, once I made the decision to shop sustainably and not to take over one of the bigger brands, perhaps greenwashing and saying, "Hey, we've got these great eco-friendly ones." Actually, you look into it, it's like still fiberglass and it's not sustainably made at all. Maybe they've got bamboo in them, but it's like 30 percent bamboo, what have you. But yeah, I lost my train of thought but, so I just basically sticking with the fins, maybe adding a few more accessories in the future. We're going after the bamboos because we're finding, especially now where we've got the Eco Egg, obviously people now want accessories for that. So doing a bundle package for people, shipping, shipping to states would be astronomical. So we're just offering within Europe and just trying to keep the sort of logistics within Europe and so less carbon footprint. Trying to practice what you preach. It's hard. It's very hard, but we're sort of committed on this journey.

Yeah. The other, I think, well, one of the main differences that I really found between Europe and America. So America, we've had this big shift where brands are selling direct to customers, right? When I started Wave Tribe 2007, 2008, we were basically selling to shop, selling to distributors. It was you had a sales rep that went around all the shop like it was a whole different business model. And then about three years ago, people really started buying directly from brands. And then, of course, COVID super accelerated that. Right now, if you're a brand in America, you're probably getting the majority of your income or majority of your sales direct to customer, right? We call, yeah, B2C or D2C. Because I had a distributor in Europe for a while and then I had a partner actually in Europe and it was just so hard because I felt like Europe was stuck in that old model, right? Like even you had like pre-purchase orders and people, like I know in France they buy for the season, right? They'll like they'll buy at a certain time for next year, that sort of thing. So do you see that changing at all or is that kind of that's the way it is in Europe now and you got to kind of play that game?

Yeah. I can talk about this as a good sort of segue into Brexit, isn't it?

Yeah, oh yeah, that's right. I forgot all about Brexit, too.

Yeah, yeah. Let's try not to get into politics too much because there's been a lot of political change your side as well. But yeah. So with that, there's just so many unknowns. But, with the whole COVID thing, I think we are starting to see a sort of change in consumer behavior, and slowly people are starting to question, "Hey, how's this product being made? Who's made it? How far does it travel to get to me?" If it's been bought via a marketplace, how they're treating their workers, are they paying their taxes in the country that they operate in? I'm mentioning no names. And things like this, I think consumers are starting to question a lot their sort of purchasing decisions. In regards to sort of Europe or planning ahead for the season, I haven't had too much experience there on sort of wholesaling and wholesale selling prices and stuff like that. I'm mostly D2C, B2C.

Yeah, cool.

It was like that with Quicksilver because obviously, Quicksilver, one of the head office in Europe is based in France. And I do remember actually like sort of the French decision being a lot more, I won't say prepared, but like planning was very key for them. They were planning way more ahead than we were in the APEC region and they wanted to know what we were doing well ahead. And we were a bit more kind of ajar and a bit more last minute, I guess.

Yeah, right. Cool. So how are you finding your customers or how are customers finding you? Are you advertising? Just curious.

Yeah. Mostly organic, word of mouth, really. I have spent some ad dollars, but you know what? I think people are just really they're becoming numb to it now. The amount of Instagram ads they're having to scroll past and I'm just finding it less effective. I don't know if your business is the same if you're seeing that as well, that trend. But, yeah, mostly so word of mouth, organic. Really want to put more emphasis, I guess, you asked me earlier about sort of the direction where the business to go, more emphasis on the consumer and building long-lasting relationships, customer lifetime value, et cetera, et cetera, all that jazz. So that's pretty important. If people are spending a bit more on a film than they would do with one of the leading manufacturers, you've got to create a point of difference and you've got to go that extra mile for the customer. So that's something definitely going to focus on this year and next years as well.

Yeah, that's a great attitude, right? Take care of the customer and they'll take care of you sort of thing.

Exactly, exactly. I wish there was more of me, but sadly, I'm only one guy just trying to juggle many hats obviously. I do have help occasionally, from other freelancers, like if I find this something that it's not really within my sort of skills, then I will sort of outsource some parts of the day-to-day business tasks. But most of the time, it's just me. It is fun.

Have you thought about making your first kind of hire to help you free up some of your time? I know for me it was a big change, right? To get out of kind of the nitty-gritty stuff and hand off like collecting data or making posts or that sort of thing?

Yeah. I have tried people in the past, but it just hasn't worked out. And I just feel this stage is still very--now, two years into the business, I'm sort of on that precipice where I could definitely do with help, and if anyone's listening and wants to help, then feel free to get in touch with you and then get my contact details.

Yeah, sure.

But it's kind of like it's that sort of early-stage revenue and the business needs to make a bit more before I can do that. But it's definitely something that's on the cards for the near future.

Sweet.

But, yeah, I definitely need that at the moment because there's definitely too much for me to sort of take on at the moment.

Yeah, yeah, you might want to try an intern. See if you can get somebody like a college student or something. I actually just, not hired, but we have an intern that's really been great. So that's always a kind of an interesting route to go, right? Because they get stoked because they get to be part of a brand. And you're stoked because you have somebody putting energy into the brand, right? You can still come out with some free fins and some t-shirts or whatever, right?

Exactly, yeah. And what's your sort of take on sort of influencers and working with them? Have you done much of it?

I've done some of it and it's either most of the time it doesn't work. People just want free stuff. So they're like hey, I get this pitch all the time, we're going on a trip and we'll take our travel bags or up to 500 bucks for a nice one like the big coffins. And so that's a big outlay for us to sponsor somebody's trip. And I'm totally open to it and I'm stoked on it if it's reciprocal and they're taking pictures and promoting the brand and they're genuinely stoked on the brand. But what I find is a lot of them kind of they get the product and run sort of thing. So if you're going to do it, there has to be some kind of contract in place, I would say. Just something really simple, say, "Hey, this is what we agree upon. We're going to get three pictures and you're going to write a blog article." But even if you do that, I don't know how much of a return you're going to get unless it's a huge influencer. But if they're a huge influencer, they're probably talking to Quicksilver and people like that, right?

Exactly, yeah. Yeah.

I'm into it as long as people are genuinely like they're into it, too, right? But unfortunately, I think some people take advantage, but that's just the way the world is. I would definitely be open to it, bro. It's a good idea for you to look for some and see how, reach out.

Yeah, cool. I'll hold my hands up and I'll say I'm not the world's most savvy social media expert. And it's something that if I was to take on someone, that's definitely where I would probably direct their attention to.

Yeah.

I just don't enjoy it. I really don't.

It's a lot of work.

Yeah.

People think social is "Oh, what's so hard about putting up a photo?" But it's got to be on-brand, you got to look for the hashtags, it helps if you have some written description. It is a lot of work and we're just talking--so you got Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, TikTok now. Just trying to keep up with socials, it's a full-time job, right?

Yeah, exactly.

But it does make a difference.

Yeah. And I feel like I don't know how you feel about the Silicon Valley companies, but some of the tactics that they use are really on hand-to-hand to get people engaging in so [inaudible 00:32:02] way. The productive hours, it's just Facebook in particular.

Yeah, they're just, I wouldn't say they're evil, I would say they're exposing human nature, right? Because they're not forcing people to be on Facebook because those people have empty lives and they're unfulfilled. But they are optimizing the experience. Let's put it that way. No, I totally agree with you. I'm down with the whole digital minimalism movement and being mindful about when you're on social and how you use social. But it's also a great communication tool. The reality is like so the balance for me is, okay, I'm not going to not be on social because I have these feelings which are strong, that people shouldn't be wasting their lives on social. But at the same time, social media is a great communication tool and everyone's there, right?

Exactly, yeah.

You're walking this really fine line of I'm going to be part of the conversation but I'm not going to be dragged into kind of the dungeons of the social media algorithm. And there was a great Netflix special about two months ago on the kind of the evils of social media. And I recommend everyone check it. I'll put in the show notes if anyone's listening, wants to check it out. Yeah, it's like anything in life, right? We just have to be mindful about how we're interacting with not only the environment but with our computers, with the people around us. I read on your About Us page, which I thought was amazing what you say at the end. You're like, "Be kind to ourselves, others and the ocean. Leave the earth in a better state than we found it. Enjoy life and make it count." If people took those three tenets to heart, we'd live in a totally different world, right?

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Oh, thanks, man. Appreciate that. Yeah. Delved into the site. Awesome.

Yeah, man. So I have a couple more kind of quickfire questions if you're down.

Yeah.

I always like to ask, what was your first surfboard or describe your first surfboard.

Ohhh. Okay. My first surfboard, actually, so I'm not including the one I learned on because that was in Cornwall in the U.K. and that was just a foamy. So let's just exclude that. But my first surfboard that I owned was a Stretch, would have been about 6', I reckon, and probably way too thin for me. I'm not a heavy guy. I'm quite light, in fact. I'm like 75 kgs, but it was like 19" wide, I think, and maybe 2 and 3/8. I want to say 2 and 3/8 thickness, but probably it was even thinner than that and it was an EPS board. And ever since then, I've always when I was buying the mainstream brands, which I'm not obviously now, making my own or using Shaka Surf products, but when I was, every board was PU, so that was my only EPS board and it wasn't the right board for me. It was way too high-performance.

Yup. Always happens with the first boards.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Way too high performance. But it was really nice. All Stretch boards are amazing and I love that sort of like indentations on the rails and it just looks like a cool board. But I also surf in Taiwanese summer waves which on average are pretty small.

Yeah, very cool.

So it wasn't the right board for that conditions but yeah, that was my first board.

Nice.

And I wish I kept it longer. I threw it away. You just go for years just trading boards, buying and selling, a new model comes out you want to test that and see how that goes. You're just looking for that one magic one, really.

Yeah, very cool.

How about you?

Oh, my first surfboard was a Crazy Horse, it was called Crazy Horse. I'll never forget it. So my buddy David Miller, it was his older, no, he had a friend. And he's like, "Dude, let's start surfing." I think we were like 11 or 12. And he's like, "Let's start surfing." I was like, "I don't have a board." And I don't even remember how I got the money. Maybe from my, because I grew up with my grandparents, maybe they gave me the money, but my uncle, he had a video camera back in the day, he took video of me with the board when I first got it. So I got to dig that out because it's pretty awesome. And yeah, dude, I don't know if I even ever stood up on the thing. I don't remember it. I feel like I was falling down for years. So, yeah, that was awesome. So what about the best surf trip you've been on? What about that?

Oh, the best surf trip. Everyone always says Indo, and I just feel that's just the obvious answer. But Fiji was pretty special.

Awesome.

Yeah. I went to Cloudbreak and unfortunately couldn't really surf Cloudbreak because the Trials were on. But in [inaudible 00:38:35], I did surf. And yeah, I went one day because I wanted to surf like island-hop and with Fiji, it's such a commitment obviously. To get a plane ticket to go there with the accommodation is pretty high-end. And so you're dropping dollar, you're dropping serious dollar. And then you've got the boat commission trips. I can't remember how much they were, but they were expensive. And obviously, you can stay on the island where price tab, but, God knows what they charge a night. So, yeah, that's just sort of like bucket list surf trip, isn't it?

Sweet.

To go to Fiji. And Morocco's been good. I went to Morocco, that was just crazy. I wouldn't go back there but I went to Morocco probably about seven or eight years ago in Taghazout.

Why is it crazy?

Just the surf tourism industry there.

Oh, right. Yeah.

It's got to be hella busy now.

Yeah.

I've had people come recently and I just said there's just way too many people in the water and it's just not fun. Like if you surf Anchors, overprice are on it, you won't get a look in and you're just waiting, waiting, waiting for the scraps really. And that doesn't really appeal to me. So if I'm to go on a surf trip now, it's all about going off the beaten path a little bit, looking at the adventures.

Yeah. A trip that I took, it's been a while now, but it was a great trip was to the Azores.

Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. São Miguel.

Yes.

Yes, yes. Beautiful. It looks like Hawaii, eh?

Amazing. Cold water, but other than that, we had an epic trek. This is like probably ten years ago so I don't know if it has more surfers, but there were some places we'd roll up, there'd be two or three guys out. It was awesome.

It's still a little bit like that if you time it right. It's still a little bit like that. And the reserves has so many islands, and each island actually has its own color code, so the São Miguel Island is called the green island because it's just like just lots of rolling green hills and all of that. All that farmland, you see cows grazing and you've just got like picturesque weather and you've got black sands. Used to be volcanic.

Cool, man.

It's a nice place.

So you want to tell everyone where to find you?

Yes.

Please go check out...

shaka-surf.com. And just the main website. Did use to have two but I kind of amalgamated the content and the e-Commerce sites so now just got the one site and yeah, if they want to contact me, then you can put that in the show notes as well.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Cool, man. Is there anything else you want to say before we depart?

Not really. This is actually the first podcast I've ever done, so it's been good and it's great that someone that shows my sort of vision for the surf industry and for how things should be going. So it's been good to talk to you, man.

Yeah, you too, man. And I'm here to help. So if you ever need anything, just reach out, and more than happy to do what I can to help you.

And vice versa. Yeah, cool.

Cool, man.

Because you been going a lot longer than me. So obviously you've got a lot of experience and insight and lessons learned. So that's always good to draw upon. All right.

Absolutely. All right, brother man.

Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you.

Take care.

Bye bye.