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Tracy Hines: Surfing as Therapy for Veterans

Listen on: Spotify | Apple | Google | Breaker | Overcast | Radio Public | Pocket Cast | Stitcher

This episode features the adventurous and exciting life of retired U.S. Army Airborne soldier Tracy Hines.

Tracy lets us in on how she got hooked into surfing, her surf therapy journey, the surf therapy camp for veterans that she joined down in South Carolina, healing from trauma, and all the activities she's been doing after she retired—paddleboarding, kayaking, skateboarding.

Tracy is undoubtedly someone who always has an exciting story to tell.

Social Media Profile:

Location: Virginia

Topics Discussed:

  • What's the process for filing a Costa Rican residency?
  • Tell me about being a US Army Airborne soldier.
  • Tell me about being an Olympic kayaker—how did you become one?
  • What's the hardest course you ever experienced?
  • At what point did you make a transition from kayaking to surfing.
  • Surf camp therapy for veterans
  • Do you think surfing and jumping out of a plane are similar in some ways?
  • What's Virginia Beach like?
  • How did you get to Costa Rica? How did you decide to take a trip down there?

Transcripts

Saltwater High! Welcome, Tracy Hines, to the podcast. How are you, Tracy?

I'm doing great.

Awesome, awesome. So what's happening over there? You're on the East Coast, I'm on the West Coast. And yeah, what's happening?

Well, I've been here for the past few months here, helping my dad on his farm.

Nice.

This past year, I had a great experience. I went down to Costa Rica and I was surfing down there and I actually have filed for residency, so I'm going to be an official Costa Rican resident.

Wow!

Yeah, so I'm going to be able to surf the awesome waves they have there every single day and eat awesome tacos.

Nice. And how does one become a resident? What's that process like?

Well, basically, it's really interesting. There's several ways you can do it. They have a new way that you can get it now. The digital nomads can get it, people that purchase property can get it, business investors. And I got it for what they call the Pensionado visa. I'm a disabled veteran and I get a veteran's benefits check. So I made enough money with my veteran's benefit check to meet the threshold and so I can be a Costa Rican resident.

That's awesome. Yeah, that's great.

So I had to get a FBI background check.

Oh, you did? Oh. Uh oh. What'd they find? Anything good?

No, great news, not wanted by the FBI. So this is huge. This is huge.

That's awesome, yeah. I was looking at your history. So you were a U.S. Army Airborne soldier. Tell me a little about what is that exactly?

So what it is is the airborne force basically was started back in the 40s and basically, it's a big tradition in the Army. And so basically, they folly troops from an aircraft. So I got to jump out of a moving aircraft. I packed parachutes. My MOS was 92 Romeo parachute rigger, and I rigged a heavy drop load. So I got to jump out of the moving aircraft and it was really fun. And so, yeah.

Wow. Is that how you got injured?

That is how I got injured. I injured my lower extremities and I got a traumatic brain injury while I was in the service. So the Army retired me because I couldn't do my job anymore and that was it.

Wow. If you look at my podcast list, I interviewed a guy, I think it's around 10 or so, who jumped out of an airplane and his parachute didn't open. And so he hit the ground basically with no opening parachute. And he tells the whole story in the podcast, which is absolutely incredible because he goes on to, well, obviously to live because we had the podcast and he's now surfing, living in Bali, and living this great life. And he said it was a game-changer for him. So you might enjoy that one being an ex-Army Ranger.

Malfunctions are more common than you might realize. I actually met a guy the other day who'd been Airborne Infantry soldier, and he had a malfunction as well. And he collided with the jumper in the air and he had to be retired from service and he was just fine. I was talking to him at a gas station. It's pretty amazing what the human body can survive and go on and do and I was really grateful to have survived my injury and be able to sort of be just fine and kind of move on with my life and have a great life afterwards. So it's great.

Yeah. And it continues, it sounds like. So interestingly, so you left the Army, then you went to college, you got your M.S. and then you were an Olympic kayaker. Tell me, how did that come about? Was that something you've been doing since you were a kid or something?

Yes. So basically, I started kayaking when I was 16 and I always was pretty athletic and I ran cross country and track. And this man from my parents' church took me kayaking and I felt total love with the sport and the water. When I was 18 and graduated high school, everybody says I ran away from home, became a whitewater rafting guide, which is kind of true. I left Alabama and went to Asheville, North Carolina and I got a job as a whitewater rafting guide. And a few years later, I made the US freestyle kayaking team and I competed for several years on the freestyle team. And then I ended up joining the Army.

What's the freestyle?

So freestyle.

Yeah. What's the freestyle team?

Basically, freestyle kayaking is very similar to a surfing competition where you do tricks and things and you get scored for the tricks that you do. And so I did that for several years and then I did some extreme kayaking and just anything in a boat. And I started racing and then I joined the Army. And when I got out, what was really cool was I got this job at a private school and they needed a canoe and kayak coach. And so I started working with the kids and I had kind of my own training. And then there was an opportunity open available for women in the C1 category because they were including this boat into the Olympic program. It's just going to be in the Olympics this year. And so they were trying to develop the category and we didn't have a whole lot of women in the US competing in that category, so I trained up and I made the US team in the boat and I raced at international level for several years, raced all around the world, I raced in Europe, I raced at a world championship in the United States. And it was a great experience.

What was the hardest course, or I don't know what you call them, rapids that you ever experienced?

Well, for racing, I would say one of the harder courses to race is actually there's a Slalom course in Charlotte, North Carolina, at the US National Whitewater Center. And it's a pretty tough course. And then there was a course in Italy, the Ivrea course, which was really difficult. And then, of course, it was a natural course and it was like running a steep creek. But as far as whitewater goes, just me paddling whitewater, running big rapids, I've run a lot of different rivers and everything differs by level. So it's like my home run while I was living in West Virginia and I have a home run at the Upper Gauley and when it's normal flow 2800, it's not so difficult. And then it's really high water, it gets crazy. So some rivers are like that, it's kind of like the ocean in a way where you could have a flat, calm day and then you have a hurricane, and it's like the waves are huge, you know what I'm saying? So it's kind of like that.

Yeah. Interesting. And so at what point did you make a transition? Because obviously you have a deep love for water, which is very apparent in your history. But at some point you either put the kayak aside for a minute and you grabbed a surfboard. So tell me a little bit about how that happened.

So this is kind of a cool story. So I had this really good friend that had been on the freestyle team with me for years and years and his name was Barry Kennon. And he had started SUP paddling, standup paddleboarding. And he was telling me all about this knee pedestal, his videos of standup paddleboarding on his Instagram and his Facebook page. I was like, "Man, Barry, that looks so cool." And he's like, "Well, you need to try it." And I was like, "Oh, I don't know. I just want to try surfing." And so he said, "Well, I have this sponsor." And he had the sponsor that made standup paddleboards and river surfboards. So I reached out to the sponsor and I said, "Hey, I'd like to buy one of these river surfboards. Barry sent me." And he said, "Yeah." The guy sent me a surfboard for the river. And so that entire summer, because when I want to learn something, I'm going to jump in whole hog. And so I was in West Virginia. And so what I would do is all my friends that were going out rafting because there were a lot of people that I know have their own, even though they work in the whitewater industry, they have their own raft. And any time anybody was going out on a raft, I would say, "Hey, let me hitch a ride." So I would hold on to my surfboard and they would take me down on Gauley Rivers and any time I'd see a wave, I just jump out and try to surf it. I had some really cool adventures. And then I met up with some people in the local area that had been starting to river surf. And so they would actually drive in with four-wheel drive vehicles and we would hike a mile in with our surfboards into this rapid cold diagonal ledges on the Gauley and this thing, the right flow makes the best, most glassy way that you can literally surf on a surfboard with. And so I started learning to surf.

So this is on a river, right?

This was on a river.

Is it on a river?

This was on a river. And then I said, "I want to learn how to ocean surf." And so I went down to Florida that winter and there was this guy named John. I looked up surf instructors because I wanted some formal instruction. And there was this guy named John, and he'd been an Air Force veteran, he's an Air Force veteran and I said, "Okay, I'm going to go with this dude because he'd competed." So John gave me a surfing lesson and I learned a lot from him. And then I stayed 3 weeks over down at Cocoa Beach and I surfed at the Jetty and I was learning just what I could and John was teaching me. And then, I came back to West Virginia, and that summer—which is really cool—I got a message in my inbox from the Veterans Administration, and they had this surfing camp, the surf therapy camp for veterans down in South Carolina.

That is awesome. I had no idea they had that.

Yeah, it's called the Warrior Surf Foundation, and it's really cool. There is this guy named Andy Manzi who had been a Marine, and he started this amazing organization where they do therapy for veterans with PTSD and TBI and things, and then they teach you to surf. And so it was really exciting because I just went down and I spent the whole summer down in South Carolina last year. And I just learned to surf basically down there. And those guys, it was really cool because Andy and then the head surf instructor, Aaron, had been like this Green Beret. And what's so crazy, man, is you look at these 2 dudes and it's like are you seriously are in the military? Because they look like a couple of hippies now. They got long hair and they totally embrace the lifestyle. And Aaron had this big old beard that I swear a bird lived in and the dude was awesome. Aaron, actually, this guy was an amazing instructor because they had him for a while teaching doing weapons training and he would teach people because of his advanced weapons skills as a Green Beret. He would teach people from all the surface services. Just because you're in the military, you don't always fire your weapon all the time. And he was telling me this one time he had to teach this female officer how to use her handgun and it was a struggle because her hands were too small. And so the great thing about Aaron was that he had this innate skill for explaining things very simply and in a very detailed manner so you could really understand it. And so basically, every day I go out surfing with Aaron and he would explain every detail about the waves and the ocean and how the rip currents work. And he gave me such a detailed explanation of everything that when I started really surfing on my own and when I went to Costa Rica, I took a surf camp there with Witch's Rock. I stayed in Tamarindo for about a month. And then in February, I went over to Dominical, which Dominical, those waves there are enormous. And just getting out the back in Dominical, you were just paddling like a fiend and you're having to really read the currents or you're just going to get a beat down. And so Aaron really gave me a lot of good preparation to understand how the current worked and everything. And I was able to surf in some pretty big surf after that.

That's awesome.

Man, I got totally hooked on it. I got hooked on surfing like nobody's business. And it was such a different thing than kayaking because I didn't need all the stuff. In kayaking, you need a life jacket and a helmet. And the other thing is when you're learning the kayak and you swim, it's drama because your boat fills with water and you've got to chase it down this river that's moving. But when you're learning to surf and you swim off your board because even people that are highly skilled are going to wipe out eventually, you fall off the board and a lot of times you've got your leash, you can pull it back to get back on it. And it's just different, it seems like it just felt so free, surfing. It was different. I always surf waves in my kayak, but it's like you're confined in this little thing, this little box almost. But surfing, my legs were free, I'm standing up on the board, I'm able to feel my whole body. And it's really an awesome experience.

Do you think it's similar to jumping out of a plane in some ways?

There's a little bit of it that it is because actually when you're kind of wiping out or you're falling off the board, a lot of jumping out of a plane, believe it or not, is, of course, falling, but it's landing, too. So you do this thing, you have to land eventually and you do this maneuver called the parachute landing fall. And you want to do that correctly, because if you don't, especially with the round chute, you're going to injure yourself. So what's really cool is I had a lot of experience learning how to fall on the ground, like I was formally trained by the United States Army on how to fall correctly, so it didn't hurt myself. So I was able to use some of those same skills surfing, when I'm falling off my board, and how to fall safely. And I think there is some transferability and then the balance. There's a lot of balance associated with surfing and just kind of learning that balance and being able to feel your feet underneath you is I think, now that you're saying it, I think that is something that did transfer over a little bit from my military training. And so it's really exciting.

Sounds like you really took to it very quickly. I also saw you sent me a picture of you on a skateboard, so it looks like you're riding anything you can find, pretty much.

I bought that skateboard, check this out. So when I was a kid, my mother wouldn't let me have a skateboard because she was afraid that I was going to get hurt. She said, "You can't have a skateboard, you can't have a motorcycle." And this was a big deal. And I wanted one so badly. And I said, "Well, you know what, I'm an adult now." And last year when I went to South Carolina, there's a shop down there and they sell surfboards and skateboards. And I saw that board and it's a Sector 9 longboard and I said, "I'm getting it." And so I got that board and I have been practicing riding it, and it's really helped my surfing. Because when I'm here at dad's and even though there's flat water down near me, the nearest beach is in Virginia Beach, which is 80 miles away. But I can go out to the road and take my skateboard every day and I'll do a little skateboard, longboard session. And that skateboard just brings so much joy. It's like I take 30 years off my age every time I get on that board. It just fills my heart with glee like I'm a little child, having so much fun.

Yeah, that's awesome. I'm going to go out and buy a skateboard as soon as this is over. What's Virginia Beach like?

Virginia Beach is really cool. So what's cool about Virginia Beach is there is this military installation called the Dam Neck Annex and so it's right there on the beach. And so you can go to the Dam Neck Annex and surf and it's not crowded at all. There's not a lot of people. Now Virginia Beach proper, there's 3 or 4 places to surf. There's the pier and then there's this jetty and then there's 1st Street. So there're several places to surf and they get some pretty good surf down there. It's not big, but it's great for longboarding. And then sometimes, what I'll do when I'm leaving, when I'm going on my surf trips from dad's is I'll go hit Virginia Beach first. So first, I'll go hit the Dam Neck Annex to see what's going on there. Right down the road, there's Croatan. And so I'll go down to that beach area there and surf a little bit, then I'll go down and surf. Because there's different times a day, these areas get good. And then I'll go over to 1st Street and surf. And then what I'll do is I'll get back in my van and I'll go down to Cape Hatteras. And so usually when the waves are pretty, maybe, 2 or 3 feet at Virginia Beach, they're 4 feet down at Cape Hatteras because it's like right there on the Cape, it gets some good winds. And there at the lighthouse, really good surfing there.

Does it get crowded?

Well actually, Cape Hatteras isn't always too crowded because there are so many surfing spots all the way down. You start at Rodanthe Pier and you go all the way down the lighthouse and it sort of disperses the people out. And there's some good waves down there and there's free camping—this is the kicker. Well, not free, but it's cheap, very cheap, and they don't really check too much. So it's right there at the lighthouse. So basically, you can set up your camp and then go right down the road and surf right there at the lighthouse. And so it's really good. And another place that's really good, I just got back from a trip down to Sebastian in Florida, and there's this campground down in Sebastian Inlet at the marina that I stayed in. And I think what was cool is at the marina, I could standup paddleboard in the morning and then in the afternoon or vice versa, I could walk right across the street to Spanish House and it's just right across the road and some of the bluest water I've ever seen in my life. It's good surf down there. Because we just had a hurricane, there's just a little tropical storm hurricane and there was some good waves down there.

Nice. Very cool. So how did you get to Costa Rica? How did you even decide to take a trip down there? Well, how'd that all come about?

Well, so this is kind of wild. So right after my surf camp, the veteran surf camp, I decided to go back to graduate school, and so I went to this school in Charleston, South Carolina. And it was this military-type school. What they had was they had this program in tactical strength and conditioning. And I just got there and I've been out of the military for a while. In the military school, part of the military that I was in was really cool because airborne operations is very cool. But the regular part of the military, it's a little different and this military school was kind of the regular part of the military. And I was in these classes and everything and I'm like I just don't know, I already have one master's degree and I was just not really feeling it. I'm like, "I don't know if I really like the vibe of this place." And I said, "You know what? I'm not down for this whole place." So anyway, I resigned from the program and I said, "You know what? I kind of need a little soul searching." Because I'm trying to figure out what my next steps were. So I got a flight down to Florida, Cocoa Beach, and what was really a cheap flight. And the cab driver that took me to the airport said, "You need to try to go to Costa Rica." And I said, "Dang, that's a good idea." So I get down to Cocoa beach and I was there 3 days and I looked up on the internet and there was a really cheap ticket for like a hundred bucks.

So wait, wait. Let's back up. So the taxi driver told you? Was he Costa Rican or was he a surfer? Why did he even say that?

Well, he'd been a surfer. He was a surfer. So this dude's name's Scott. And he was a surfer. Because I had my surfboard with me going to the airport and my skateboard.

Right, right. Got it.

So, yeah, so let me back up. I had my little bag. I have this little decom bag that you could put your skateboard on and it's little bitty and I just put a pile of board shorts in there and I was like, "Man, I got to blow this pop stand." So I got to get out of Charleston. I'm like, "I got to blow this pop stand." And so I get the cheap flight and this guy Scott picks me up at the airport. He sees I've got my little surfboard with me. And he said, "Where are you going?" And I said, well, "I'm going down to Florida." And he said, "You need to go to Costa Rica. That's where the surfing's good." Because he was a surfer. And so I was like, "That's an excellent idea." And I was down in Cocoa Beach and I was surfing and I was sitting on the wave and Scott's idea, the cab driver's idea just kind of kept culminating in my head.

Working on you.

And I finally got off my board and I went down and I made my reservation. And I did. I just flew down to Costa Rica and this was in November, right before Thanksgiving.

This is what year? Last year?

Yeah. Just last year. This just last November.

Okay. So this is during COVID then?

This is during COVID and the cool thing about Costa Rica was you could travel to Costa Rica and all you had to do is buy this little insurance policy when you got there so they weren't restricting it. So I bought this COVID policy for a hundred bucks. And of course, you had to wear a mask everywhere, but they weren't as crazy about the COVID. And so I get down there and I went to this surf camp called Witch's Rock. And that was really cool because those guys, they really helped me take my surfing to the next level a little bit because the waves that were there in Costa Rica were a lot more sizable. And so it's kind of like when you have the book in large print and the letters are really big?

Yeah.

That's kind of like the waves in Costa Rica. They're big enough where I could actually see all this stuff. And it was really good, those guys there, they were the surf instructors. Because all this stuff Aaron had told me I had in my head, but he told me this on small waves that I'd seen on a lot of smaller waves. And so now I was seeing their waves. And the guys, where I was going out surfing, it was really cool because what they would do there is they actually had a boat. So you would paddle out, there in Tamarindo, catch this boat, and they would take you over to Playa Grande and some other beaches where the swells were bigger, and then you would jump off the boat and paddle over to the waves and stuff. And some of those waves were really beefy. And then afterwards they would do a video of you and then they would give you a little carnival lesson. They would explain based on your video and I had not been videoed before and so that really helped me. And so I stayed there in Tamarindo. I came home to see dad for Christmas and then I sat and I chopped wood for dad for 3 weeks because dad has this wood-burning furnace and I chopped wood and I would come in from chopping wood, and I'd be sitting there talking to dad and I'll be like, "Dad, I'm going back to Costa Rica." And he's like, "Well, all right, but get on the woodchop first." So I got all his wood chopped. Well, then, man, I have this van. This awesome Ford Transit Connect Van. And I decided I was going to drive down there back to Costa Rica. And I didn't tell my dad this because I didn't want him to freak out. I'm an only child and everything. And even though I'm older, dad still freaks out sometimes.

Sure.

I'm not going tell him I'm driving. So I said, "Dad, I'm taking my van." And he said, "Where are you going to park it?" I said, "I'll park it." I was going to park it in Costa Rica when I got there but I said, "I'm going to drive." So this is the funny part of the whole story. So I start driving and I left Virginia and I get down to the border of Texas where Texas and Mexico meet right there in Brownsville. Well, lo and behold, I did not realize my registration of my van was expired. And so they were not going to let me cross this border. Well, let me tell you what I did. I decided to create a document, you know what I mean? So I altered my registration document. Well, I tried to negotiate with the border guards here in Mexico because, I forgot to tell you several years prior, back in the 90s, I went down to Mexico before and I had a small document issue and I was able to bribe the person at the border like a hundred bucks, and it was no big deal. So I said, "I think I won't be able to settle this situation with a bribe maybe." So I'm starting to negotiate with this person. And the guy said, "Well, wait one hour." And that's what they always say when they're going to let you bribe them to get across the border. And I waited an hour. Well, this guy that was going to let me bribe him wanted $2500. And I said, "Man, this is crazy." I said, "That's a little steep for my blood." So I went back across the border, down to Padre Island and I hung out on Padre Island in a minute. And West Virginia, where my vehicle was registered, you can file for your registration online and they will email you a new registration. But because of COVID, they were backed up and I wasn't going to get that for 3 weeks. So I was going to have to sit there for 3 weeks and wait. And so I was sitting there and normally you can camp for free down on Padre Island, but because of COVID, you can't camp for free now because of the situation. So I was camping, they had a campground down there and I was camping and I was hanging out waiting. And I called my dad. He said, "Where are you?" And I said, "Well, I'm down in Padre Island." And he said, "What are you doing there?" And I accidentally let it slip out that I've been trying to drive down to Costa Rica. Oh, dad freaked out. He's like, "Oh, my goodness, you don't need to try to drive down there." He said, "Just come on back here." And he said, "I'll buy you a plane ticket back to Costa Rica and you could leave your van in my yard." And I thought about it, and I said, "Daddy, I don't know." And so I waited a day. And I waited 2 days and I called a friend of mine and I said, "Should I do it? I hate to ask my dad." They said, "Well, he offered to buy you a ticket." And I said, "You know what? Sold." And I drove back and I left my van in dad's yard. And what I did is, I have a bike, I have a surly straggler. I said, "I need transportation down there." So I've got this suitcase for my bike and I took my bike apart, I put it in a suitcase, and I took my surfboard down there. And I got a surfboard rack on my bike and I was able to ride to the beach with my surfboard on my bike. So I didn't even need that vehicle. And it was great. So I got down there on January 28 back to Costa Rica. And oh, by the way, before I left the first time, Robert August lives down in Tamarindo and he makes surfboards down there. And I had ordered me a Robert August surfboard. So I was returning to Tamarindo and I specified the dimensions I wanted because I wanted something little fat, you know what I mean? But still fast. And he made me a sweet board. I get down there and I get the board and I was able to put it on my surfboard rack and ride at the beach every day. Well, I was down in Tamarindo for about a month or so and I said, "I want to go and see some other part." So I went down to Dominical. And I found this place to rent and I stayed in Dominical until June, basically. Because what happened was, I was able to extend my time there because of COVID. The Costa Rican government was letting you extend and I just extended. And then while I was down there, I found out I could file for residency. So I went ahead and did that. And I tell you what's crazy is the place I was staying in Dominical even had a dog that came with it. Like literally there was this little dog. Well, what happened was there was this dude that he had lived there before and he moved. Well, he tried to take his dog with him to his new place but the dog didn't like the new place. So the dog just would come back and the dog liked that old house and so the dog would just stay there. And every day I'd wake up and the dog would be there. So I starting the dog followed me to the beach, so I got a little leash and the dog was my best friend now in Dominical. She and I, her name was Sally, and we would go to the beach every day and she would hang out at the beach and she would get in the water and I would surf. And then we go back to the house. And that was it.

Very cool, very cool. Amazing, that's such a great story.

Well, I got one more part of it.

Yeah, tell me, tell me.

I don't know if it's a happy ending because life is so long. The happy ending ain't to your dad. But it's a good part.

Happy middle maybe.

Happy middle. But anyway, so one of the judges from the competitions that I did, I got to be real good friends with him. They're starting to do standup paddleboard competitions with the International Canoe Federation. He said, "Hey, there's a world championship this year and down in Hungary for standup paddleboard." Then I'm like, "Well, I've been surfing and I bet I could operate one of these standup paddleboards." And so I signed up for this world championship standup paddleboard race, and I got me there's a guy down at Virginia Beach who sells these racing boards that I know and he sold me a standup paddleboard with the paddle. And while I've been here at dad's, because he lives near the lake, I've been practicing on it and I'm going to be racing in September on this standup paddleboard, and there's a cash purse. So potentially, if I do really well, I could win 30,000 euros.

So you're going to Hungary in September?

Yeah, man. And I'm going to raise my standup paddleboard.

What an incredible life you've lived. You just go from one adventure to another. I absolutely love it. And you listen to taxi drivers, everyone should listen to taxi drivers. Especially when they tell you to go to Costa Rica.

Well, you know what's crazy is, people spent all this money on therapists. They spent all this money on all these people. I've had some of the best conversations with random people like taxi drivers because they're not partial. They don't know who you are, you ain't never going to see them again like a therapist. I hate to say it, I don't mean to insult the profession, but they are making money and they do want you to come back because if you come back, they're going to be able to charge you again. So there's no incentive for you not to be crazy. So the taxi cab driver, I'm going to get out of his cab and he's going to pick somebody else up. And so, you could tell a taxi cab driver your whole life story, and they've got to get to the point, give you some good advice because they got to let you out so you can catch your flight. So I've had some of the best advice from taxi cab drivers, hairdressers, and even though I don't drink, bartenders. Because you're there for just 5 minutes, I'll get my Coca-Cola, and the bartender will also give you sometimes, because they're not going to see you very often, a quick advice. People that really know you, it's harder for them to give you advice because they know your whole situation. But, sometimes you can get some good advice from just random people. That's good.

That's awesome. I love the story. Such an inspiring history. And, yeah, I look forward to hearing more. Where can people find out more about you if they're listening to the podcast and they want to follow your journey or see if you win that $30,000 in September? Do you have a place they can go?

I do have an Instagram page. It's tracyhines7770 instagram.instagram, I guess, however they do it. It's me and I have a little mountain. I got this picture of a mountain a few years ago and I really loved it. Well, if I use the mountain photograph for my image, I didn't have to comb my hair, you know what I mean?

Right.

And so it's like I love the mountain and that's my thing. And so now there's also a Tracy Hines race car driver. That's not me. But I'm the mountain.

Okay, that's not you.

Yeah.

Okay, awesome. We'll put that in the show notes so everyone can get more of your story. We really appreciate you coming on the podcast. And yeah, I look forward to hearing more.

Thank you. Now, would there be a link for this podcast?

Yeah. We'll send, yeah. Yeah.

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